Decisions: Simourv!

[Kilnarak]

Allright, here's a post for deciding what we want to do with simourv in our new site. I'll address things in points:

1. What colors do we want? Currently we have Gray, Black, Red, Tawny, Blue, Green, and Rainbow. We've also more-or-less decided to have White simourv (with their text-color determined by the color of their eyes or accent colors on their bodies). Would we like any other colors? Purple, Yellow, Orange...? I suppose we could also add color groups (for example: This one is dusk themed, so it's colors are purple, blue, red) although that might end up doing away with rainbows - which I'm not sure we want. We can also do away with colors, if we feel they're unnecessary.

2. In relation to colors, size? We've decided we're going to size-down simourv some. Do we want them all to be similar sizes, or would we like to keep a noted size difference between colors and genders? Para suggested possibly making them all a similar size, but giving them certain personality trends and skillsets to vary their roles. I'm not sure if this is something we want or not, however, so. Opinions?

3. How do we want clutches to work? Should all females be able to clutch, and should their be a variance in clutch sizes (i.e. grays have huge clutches, tawnies have medium clutches, greens have small clutches, and rainbows have one or two eggs?) Should Greens and Rainbows only be able to clutch when tawnies also clutch? This would also bear upon Flights - we could have greens, rainbows, and tawnies all Fly at the same time, instead of having them separate - this would determine whether the green or rainbow would lay viable eggs or not. What are the thoughts on these things?

4. How do we want bonding to work? Would we like to do away with bonding preferences altogether? So any gender/sexuality can bond any simourv? Would we like to leave in loose preferences toward personality types? Would we like simourv to be able to bond to other sentient species, aside from humans and other simourv (such as kamrov or the to-be-discussed huma birds?)

5. Do we want to change up simourv roles: Currently we have the grays and blacks as leaders, tawnies as caregivers, and reds, greens, and blues as fighters. Rainbows have no real clear role, but we were thinking of making them as more spiritual/religious, along with the white simourv. Should we give colors set roles? Or should we allow it to be more fluid? What are some other roles you would like to see available to simourv?

6. Should simourv sexing remain the same? i.e. grays are always female, blacks are always male, etc. Should we change this, say, make reds and blacks female, grays male, etc? Should we allow any color to be any sex, or should we have distinct color/sex separations?

I might add more questions later as they come up, but this seems like a good set for now. I'll also post my own opinions later on in the thread.

[Aikaph]

Here are what I say!

1: I say we have the whites have their color-codes determined by their accent colors, considering the eye color can get pretty darn similar around here. ;P I am also for adding colors, but not really for color-sets. I say we have some of one color that have accents of other colors be rarer/growing in numbers over the "traditional" colorings and accents.

2: I prefer having them roughly the same size. Sure, it is fun to have a massive boded creature that towers over the rest of them, but when it comes to Rising, it does limit who can catch what. Having them more similar in sizing not only allows for more chances of different colors catching "high-ranking" females, but it will most likely bring higher interest in Flights and having males Chase (not to mention drag us away from Pern ;D)
EDIT: Crap, I never really specified, but I meant that I would like it if they were downsized and then made roughly all the same size. Sorry for any misconceptions!

3: All females should be able to clutch; it will make more people excited about all Rising females, which should be fun. The only restrictions should be who can produce queens (Greys/Grey equivalent if we change it) and the likelihood of duds. Or even, the lower-ranking females have a higher chance of producing simourv that have problems/disabilities (although I feel if we did that we may be attacked for "stealing Tribal Weyr's ideas. I think it was Tribal Weyr that had that happen quite often. Not sure, tho.)

4: I am all for getting rid of preferences. It should e what personality fits best with this simourv, not what sex/mental gender. Although I am not for simouorv bonding to huma-birds, especially if the birds are going to be eagle-sized, but sim-kam bondings could be interesting!

5: This one I will probably come to later, once I have some clearer thoughts in my head for roles.

6: This one is a little tough. I mean, yes it would be interesting to have all colors e all genders, but wouldn't that get... I dunno, more than a little confusing? How would we record them in the records?

[/size]

[trico]

Yay, I love being able to put member opinions in. *snugs Staff team for this*

1. I think having a few more in between colors would be fun. For instance it can be the following sort of system due to personality traits and instincts in a "Flock sort of mind-set"

• Queen
  
• King
  
• Sub-Queen *should compliment the other one of its rank*
  
• Lower Sub-Queen/Upper Fighter *same as above*
  
• Sub-King *same as above*
  
• Lower Sub-King/Upper Fighter *same as above*
  
• Female Healer/Spirtual
  
• Male Healer/Spiritual
  
• Male Fighter
  
• Female Fighter

[/i][/li][/ul]

I also like the idea of color groups to take the place of the more Pern oriented Green, Blue etc. For instance Forest *green*, River *blue*, Cloud *white*, Dusk *black*, Fire *red*, Tawny *sort of fits*, Rainbow etc. This will take it further from Pern as well as if given a set sort of colors that can go with each group, make the design aspect more unique as well.

I also think that the ranking should maybe be changed in name a bit. Maybe using a Caste system or other such terms? Queen, Lady, King, Lord, Healer/Shaman/Shamaness/Songstress *last one sort of goes on what they do while healing, for instance maybe they sing to soothe their patients I don't know >.<*, Warrior, and Trinket *something I came up with* or something like that. *shrugs*

2. Definitely size them down, and keep them similar but with slight differences between group and then general. I'm not sure if with birds the male or female is bigger, but that might help as a pattern. I'd keep them about ten feet apart *or meters if that's what you decide to go by* from the smallest to the largest. Personally I like the idea of Simourvs as being closer to draft horses and bigger in size.

3. I think all females should be able to clutch, with the bigger they are the more range in color they can have and the more eggs they can produce. The frequency might change as well with the Healer and Fighter breeds, however I don't think it should take just a Tawny to make them suddenly able to produce eggs. I think it would be fine for a few Greens and Rainbows *or whatever female color the Healers will be* to get together and rise around the same time and clutch together. That could easily produce 4-8 eggs depending how many eggs each is given and how many Fly.

4. I think that bonding should be to whoever with some basic preferences to personality that can either be thought about or thrown out the window depending on what's the match. xD This will make it more even for what candidates we see, and so on and so forth. I like the idea of humans bonding with Sims...but I haven't really seen Kams being played before so I don't know what they're like to really say anything about that. Sim-Sim should also be allowed since that's what would likely happen in the wild. I also think that it should be something more along the lines of that they bond mentally because they have that ability, but it's sort of like a chick bonding to its mother upon seeing them. *just modified* After so long they either will run off or bond to another Sim, though I like the idea of Sim-Sim pairs being able to agree to train with two riders as a sort of mutual agreement though they have to communicate through body language more than mind since that ability is already taken by them Sim-Sim pair. *I also think this should be something set at hatching as a these two bonded Sims pick these two riders to train with them and should be seen as an honor*

5. I think that it should either remain the same OR remain the same with a slight difference that is incredibly rare. The thing is we all know that one Green in every game who acts like a Queen, well if she can clutch why can't she be? I think that in special cases if a color shows a mind-set for another rank, then it should be possible for others to view that individual as that rank instead of the one they should be. I think this is especially likely in males since size difference will probably be either shortened or eliminated, and females are a bit harder since their color/size dictates how many eggs they can physically hold. I don't think that in the case of Healers however that only the two should be allowed as their rank, if any Sim hatches and has the aptitude I think that that should be something they choose. I just think there should be two colors that already tend to have that aptitude ingrained in their personality.

6. Personally I love Black, Blue and Red females, but that's just me. >.< I think it's fine as is to be honest. However, if enough interest is seen it can be that all colors have a chance at producing the both sexes, but it's rare to produce the other that it normally is seen in and that they generally stay within the same rank. For instance Fighters staying Fighters, Subs staying Subs, Royals staying Royals.

So...yeah those are my ideas on everything. >.>[/size][/blockquote]

[Para]

For clarification: more than making the sizes equal, I was thinking of eliminating ranks in the simourv. Not differences, obviously it'd be kind of boring if all simourv were basically identical, but ranks. It's a constant potential issue that, in general, in Pern games and, thus, here as well, prettymuch everyone wants the 'special' dragons/simourv; the high ranks, and the unusual ones (mutations in Pern, rainbows in Pohono). So far we haven't had much issue with that, other than as Chern'a pointed out having a very disproportionate number of high-ranked PC characters and low-ranked NPCs.

My idea, then, was to eliminate ranks; colors would be associated with skills such as healing, fighting, teaching, magic, or religion/spirituality, but there would not be a 'leader' class of simourv, and there wouldn't be any obvious 'color X will always be able to order around color Y' like there is now (gray can order around any color, black can order any color but gray, red and tawny can command blues, greens, and rainbows, blues and greens can command rainbows, rainbows are pathologically cheerful because they have to obey everyone at all times). Or, if there is, it would be based around something else (probably age, possibly something different or a combination of things), so that any type of simourv could, potentially, become a leader.

This would require some significant changes; apart from allowing all females to clutch, we'd probably have to shuffle around the rarity of colors (to prevent them from staying special due to rarity, as the rainbow is now) , and maybe even remove grays entirely (or do something else with them, like make a 'neutral' color class of black to gray simourv with white markings, or something similar so that they aren't purely gray anymore). It would also change the Eyrie's leadership structure, perhaps to something democratic (wingleaders all vote for the Commander, who can be male or female?), militaristic (wingleaders with the best success history/most koxi kills can contest for the leadership), matriarchal (rider of the eldest female simourv rules), theological (eldest/most talented priest pair leads), something different (pair perceived as having the best bond, and thus best ability to serve humans and simourv equally, rules) or a combination (a militaristic, matriarchal, and theological leader all co-rule the Eyrie, leading to lots of political plot options). Point being, there's lots of opportunity for interesting things in a change in Eyrie leadership even if we don't get rid of ranks, but if we do get rid of ranks, some sort of new leadership style will be needed.


...Actually, now that I've thought of it, I really like the idea of having multiple different leaders (that don't depend on each other to be leader, like the Commander depends on the Phoenix). So much plot potential....

[Kilnarak]

My personal thoughts:

1. I am kind of in favor of changing what the colors are called, if not the colors themselves. Although I'm not sure what to. Could go with different types of gem or metal - we might want to shy away from gold/bronze/whatever other colors are used in Pern. Maybe grays are silver, blacks are jet, reds are garnet, tawnies are amber, blues are lapis, greens are malachite, rainbows are tourmaline or alexandrite, or something. But. Aside from that, I'm fine with the colors as they are - I would like to add white, and I am somewhat interested in yellow, purple, and orange (to make a full rainbow for us) although I imagine those could be grouped under other colors (yellow-to-green for greens, purple-to-blue for blues, and orange-to-red for reds).

2. I'm all for decreasing the size of the simourv to something more manageable. While I do like having incredibly giant individuals, as well as tiny ones, I think it would be better to have them all of like sizes with only small jumps in scale. It would make sense to have insanely large and insanely small groupings if they were actually different subspecies, but since they're all supposed to be one species, they should all be of a size to breed with each other.
Maybe something like:
Grays & Blacks:15-20 ft.
Reds & Tawnies:12-15 ft.
Blues & Greens: 10-12 ft.
Rainbows & Whites: 8-10 ft.
I suppose that still creates a fairly large gap between the sizes of rainbows and the sizes of grays, although it's smaller than what it is currently? Probably need to work it out better still.

3. I'm also fine with all females being able to clutch, but I think there does need to be a way to limit it. Although I suppose it can be decided by dice rolls - decide a percent chance for each type of female simourv's fertility, and use a dice-rolling program to determine which is going to clutch after a given flight. We also might want to do that to decide for duds and mutations, as well. I also do think there should be a variance in clutch size, and that the females with smaller sized clutches should fly around the same time so that their eggs will hatch around the same time. Although then, we might want to determine breeding seasons maybe, instead of just having flights happen whenever.

4. I think bonding should be determined by personality, rather than by gender/sexuality. I also like simourv bonding kamrov and huma birds too, as well as other simourv and humans. We could also allow an age difference between simourv that bond - ie a hatchling bonding to an adult, instead of another hatchling, as that would allow the adult to care for the baby. But yes. I'd also like to allow older humans to bond, and for bonded simourv to be able to take secondary bonds if they choose to, in the event that their rider dies.

5. I'm not entirely sure what to do with roles. I actually kind of want to move away from the word 'Queen' because that has Pern connotations. I know for a while we were discussing that the role-names be based on mythological birds (this was while we were still at GS and transitioning to GD) - thus the prime female would be the Phoenix, and the prime male would be the Roc. We'd need to find names for other ranks 'though, too - although we could possibly make that less of a rank name and more of a color name - thus instead of grays it's phoenixes, instead of blacks it's rocs, instead of reds it's coatls or something like that. I know I'd like to allow other, non-combat roles for simourv to fill - healers and shamans, couriers and transport, and other roles that would make them more integrated in human society.

6. I'm not sure, actually. I could go either way on this. I do kind of like Trico's idea - they're generally one gender, but there's a small percent chance for them to be the opposite. So there would be a small chance for male grays, tawnies, and greens, and for female blacks, reds, and blues. We might be able to work color with that - say female blues are more purple, male greens are more yellow, etc?

I also kind of like the multiple leaders - maybe there's a leader for each color-type? Or role, depending on what the roles are (so yeah, spiritual leader, military leader, matriarch/patriarch...?)

[zeis]

1. I'm fine with all the colors we have so far. More colors is fine to, but I'd prefer if we kept the names simple. Please don't name it anything strange that someone is going to have to look up the word in a thesaurus to figure out what color you're talking about.

2. Sizing them down is good. There should still be size differences between the colors, but bringing them down to a more manageable size is just fine. If you guys size them down, you should work out their growth rates again because smaller simourv are definitely going to be born smaller and will probably take longer to be able to ride than the simourv we have now.

3. All females clutching is fine by me, but you should make sure that the more common simourv have fewer eggs and a higher dud rate. I'm kind of cautious of the idea of using dice rollers entirely for the purpose of determining who gets eggs, how many, and how many are fertile. In my opinion you guys should just try and fit it to the situation and the current number of candidates available, etc, as well as the activity of the player.

4. Getting rid of the some of the bonding restrictions is fine. Though if you guys do this you may want to re-examine what happens to the riders during simourv flights, just to avoid making people uncomfortable in terms of what their character has to do to some other simourvs rider.

5. I'm fine with the ranks and roles as is now, but if you guys do decide to change it, I'm not sure it should always be so specific such as healer, teacher, etc. Simourv have varying personalities and ranks like that would change it just from a type of social stratification ("You have more prestige than me, and I have more than him.") into very specific jobs and roles which might force the player to go in a direction they don't really want ("I am a blue so me and my rider are destined to be religious leaders.")

6. This is an interesting issue. I've been trying to work out a system for this, and if you guys want to go this route, this is what I was thinking when I was considering this for an RPG. Each color either has a specific rate of either sex occurring. For example, there could be.
-Always one sex ( 100% either male of female) (Think Calico cats or sex linked genes. )
-Almost entirely one sex (75% chance of male or female, with 25% chance of opposite sex.)
-Equal rates of both sexes (50% for either.)
Always one sex colors should be rarer, though they can be placed anywhere in the hierarchy. Almost entirely one sex colors should come in pairs that are meant to supply enough males and females for their paired colors flights. For example, greens could be mostly female but with some males, and blues could be mostly male but with some females. A male green or a female blue would be uncommon enough to make it a special occurrence on the sands. Females of mostly male colors would still be able to clutch, but would either lay a small amount of eggs or have a higher dud rate. For example, heres a random chart of how this system could potentially work with whatever colors and combinations:
-Gray (0 m/100 f, 1d20 egg, 25% dud)
-Black (100 m/0 f, 0 egg, 100% dud)
-Tawny (25 m/75 f, 1d6 egg, 50% dud)
-Red (75 m/25 f, 1d3 egg, 75% dud)
-Teal (75 m/25 f, 1d3 egg, 75% dud)
-White (25 m/75 f, 1d4 egg, 50% dud)
-Blue (75 m/25 f, 1d2 egg, 75% dud)
-Green (25 m/75 f, 1d2 egg, 75% dud)
-Rainbow (50 m/50 f, 1 egg 75% dud)

[Para]

In response to Zeis: I wasn't thinking the roles would necessarily be that strict; that was used more as an example than what would necessarily be used. Basically, the point was that there would be some differentiation between colors except for the actual feather color (and gender) (though, when I think of it, dropping even that could have possibilities), but it wouldn't be rank (or, to a large extent, size, as larger size=higher rank is pretty engrained in most peoples' minds for any creatures, and I suspect it'll be hard enough to remove the ranks as it is).

As for flights, I've established in K'tani's backstory that it's possible for a rider to avoid a flight (if difficult), so people who are extremely uncomfortable can do that, or arrange OOC for the flight to have the result they want (which I think happens anyway for plot purposes). And, to be honest, as the results of flights aren't shown, I don't think that a character being with another character of the same gender because of a flight would bother most people very much (particularly relative to the whole rape-ish aspect of some flights, and the fact that same-gender flight rider pairings are a complete possibility for most riders already), unless they're extremely squeamish about homosexuality in general, which... well, to be completely honest, I deal with enough of those in real life and on other sites; I don't want to have to cater to them on Pohono, too. (If the it's character, rather than the writer, that's squeamish, then I'd just assume there's plot potential.)

So while looking at how flights work again is certainly possible (and something I'd like to do, in relation to how it would effect simourv-simourv pairs and how it would be viewed by the culture and individuals), I don't think 'my character might be stuck with a character that's the same gender as them' is the reason to do it. That's already a possibility for most characters, and there are already ways around it that anyone can use easily enough. (I know I could have misinterpreted what you were referring to, but I honestly can't think of what else would change by allowing both genders to bond to all simourv, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that.)


And, something else I thought of: a while ago the mess of bonding and language was brought up, which led to the idea that simourv 'take' language from their rider's mind when they bond (as a reason for why simourv immediately know the human language, and unbonded simourv have difficulty communicating with humans at all), and then to 'why don't they pick up other things, like an incest taboo?' I don't remember what all else was mentioned, but having simourv pick up an incest taboo seems like a very valid possibility and potential plot point if we allow all females to clutch. I imagine it would be fairly limited (probably to first cousins and closer, if not more limited than that) for plot purposes, but there are human cultures that allow even first cousin marriages, so it's not at all unreasonable. I... don't really know where I was going with that, but. Something to consider. If nothing else, I'd like to make the new Pohono much more coherent logically, and not so dependent on 'because that's just the way it works' as the answer for questions (like 'why do simourv bond at all?' 'Why do the high-ranked/important ones only pick straight males/females?' 'How do they know human language/culture?' etc.).

[Kilnarak]

I know the "There is no such thing as simourv incest" came about because of Pern. I... didn't really get it, because in nature animals do try to avoid mating with close relatives, as inbreeding can cause problems with their young. I... sort of think it would be realistic to address that, although it might be difficult, given that our Eyries seem to be mostly... all siblings. Although I suppose we could change that - especially if we're allowing all females to clutch. There could be multiple family groups within the Eyrie sort of joined into a big super-group.

On that, something I forgot to mention. I was thinking maybe, people who bond simourv don't necessarily have to go to the Eyrie. Like, if the clutch is in another simourv, the Eyrie might want potential fighters to go to them, but people and simourv who *don't* want that might be able to stay in their home-town with the simourv-group staying there? Although, I suppose that might cause problems in that... if all of the other players are in the Eyrie. It'd be an interesting "world" idea, but I'm not sure if we'd be able to implement it?

[Para]

If all the females clutch, then yeah, Eyries won't be all siblings. There will be some limitations on flights just because siblings will be in the same Eyrie, but in most cases I don't think it'd be an issue, especially if we keep the clutches fairly small for all colors.

I think, purely on IC logic, they'd at least insist that the weyrlings' (Eyrlings? Eylings? Eyrielings?) training be completed at the Eyrie, for the sake of standardization and making sure everyone is competent and such. After that, though, I'd imagine that riders could request to go back to their home town if they wanted, and probably most such requests would be granted.

[Kilnarak]

Mm. I was thinking more that the Eyrie seems to train more as a military force - a lot of the training is combat practice. Also, not all of the clutches might occur at the Eyrie? Although I suppose there could be simourv set to transport candidates/winglet-pairs to/from the Eyrie to wherever they need to be?

[Para]

Yeah, getting them to the Eyrie would be an issue, though they could just require all female simourv to come to the Eyrie before they lay eggs.... But that's basically what I was thinking too; it's the combat training that they're concerned with. So if simourv are doing other things like transport and such maybe they wouldn't care, but at least any simourv that intend to be guards anywhere I think they'd require to get Eyrie training, or at least pass Eyrie standards/tests, if only to prevent untrained simourv from trying to fight koxi and getting killed. Simourv with other jobs may or may not get combat training; I think giving them at least a little training in fighting koxi would be logical (assuming we still have koxi) since that's a large part of the benefit to having a simourv with you, but that could be done much more easily wherever the simourv happens to be.

Also: just to make sure, are we planning to (assuming koxi/some other threat is still around) have simourv stationed in every town as guards? I think it'd make sense, since simourv can't teleport.

[Chern'a]

1. First, colors! I am perfectly happy with the current colors. I am perfectly happy renaming them, or even picking new ones entirely! I like the idea of the added white! I think, to keep things easy for logistics, sticking to a low number of colors similar to what we currently have, whatever they end up being, is the better way to go. I'm not sure that color 'groups' make sense, since we already have accents (blacks with red and blue tinges, reds with gold and black, blues with black and green, etc), but I suppose that'll depend on what we change to. For the sake of de-Pernifying, though, I might suggest changing up our 'low ranked blues and greens' - perhaps swapping in those orange or purple Killy mentioned. Although I do think we should keep the option to have various accents and patterns of secondary and tertiary colors, to help personalize each one.

This also deals with rank, but I think associating the colors with personality types might make sense? Just like different wolves in a pack emit different pheromones based on their rank (being a scent-based animal), perhaps simourv personalities affect the color of their feathers (being a sight-based animal)? Going with the colors we're currently familiar with, an assertive male is more likely to develop red or black feathers? Possibly make it somewhat fluid - each hatchling is 'assigned' a color when they hatch (by the mods/admins, just like we currently have) but through good roleplaying and situations that arise, a player may submit an application to have their simourv go up or down in the ranks - i.e. develop coloration more in line with how their personality shifts. Of course, this would be rare, but having the possibility available would open more opportunities. Perhaps a 'blue' is particularly brave and on several occasions, takes control of a situation. As long as the behavior is consistent, the admins may allow him to start developing more red plumage. Or, conversely, a red or black that undergoes a traumatic experience and loses confidence and command over a long period of time may shift towards blue.

Hmm...re-reading that, I'm not sure how logistically plausible that is, but I'll leave it in case it inspires someone else to tweak it into something useable.

2. Sizes! I'm glad to hear you're scaling them down ^_^ One option is to have most of the ranks be of similar/overlapping sizes, with the Queens standing out as being noticeably (not necessarily significantly, just...visually) large, and perhaps the whites being visually smaller. Like different dog breeds that are of similar sizes, they can still interbreed, but they have different visual cues which sets each 'color group' apart.

3. I think I addressed the clutching issue in a previous thread/post...I'm all for having all females clutch, with the likelihood of a successful clutch and the amount of eggs each female produces reducing as they go down in rank. Whether you use random number generators or dice, you get the same results.

I don't really like the idea of dud eggs? I know they happen, but I'd prefer to seem them primarily used when we have too many eggs and not enough Candidates. I also think even the lowest ranking females should produce 2-3 eggs (not just 1) in case you've only got 2 or 3 low ranking females clutching at once. Then you can get t least 6-9 eggs available for Candidates - ideal if we've had a small influx of members. So...yes. Queens clutch large and mostly alone, while lower ranks clutch small, and group together.
In the wild, this would make sense because if you have all the 'low rank' females lay their eggs into the same nest, you can increase the number of caretakers/defenders at a given time.

4. Hoo boy! YES, I would like to see the gender/sex thing dropped. But I would like to see personality prefs continue. Perhaps Queens tend to bond to strong, nurturing females because they match their personalities...but if a strong, nurturing male comes along, he could also be a contender. The gender issue should be dropped completely. As I understood it, your simourv Rising makes you really, really horny...but there are numerous ways to cope with that besides mating with the rider of the mate your simourv chooses. What about all those poor fellas who LOSE a Chase? It seems like as long as you character acknowledges the urges, how they choose to deal with them is up to them. Perhaps they seek out the rider of the simourv their mindmate is chasing, because of the enhanced 'experience.' Or maybe they just lose themselves in the arms of their usual partner/lover. Or maybe they go dunk themselves in the cold pools in the bathing caverns, or go for a run up and down all the stairs in the Eyrie, or whatever. As long as they aren't forced to mate with someone the player is uncomfortable with, there shouldn't be a problem yes?

Ahem. Yes. Also, bonding not only simourv-simourv, but also simourv-kamrov and simourv-huma birds sounds interesting and exciting. I am all for this.


5. Um. This one is harder. I think that what we have currently works...but there's lots of room for elaboration. Particularly if we're planning to downplay the role of fighting/koxi. Perhaps reds/blacks still fight (which is why they come across as more dominant personalities) while greens and blues are more 'service oriented' (hauling, building bridges/dams/large buildings, couriers between continents, etc). Whites we'd talked about as shamans/mages/healers, with rainbows as either priests or, perhaps, explorers/scouts. Along with my previous idea of 'shifting color continuum' some may change color/job preference throughout their lives.

The color gradations can work as 'sub ranks' or indicators of personality too - say, blacks are the most dominant and best leaders/captains/commanders. Reds are the best 'grunt fighters' but reds with black markings may be like lieutenants. Likewise, blues may be good at following orders in a particular profession, but blues with more black markings may be leaders in that particular profession. (I have this idea of simourv engineers working beside human ones to build structures - with a black-marked blue simourv functioning as a foreman to the other working blues and greens)

6. I admit that I like having the sexes be distinct colors, perhaps with distinct strengths and weaknesses. I feel like making all colors of simourv be both sexes would get...confusing? Not to mention make clutching/Chasing more logistically difficult to deal with. I kind of like having the Grey/Black, Tawny/Red, Green/Blue dichotomies, with rainbows being 'both' as part of what makes them special. Also, I think that if we do have Whites be a distinct group capable of using some sort of vague magic/shamanistic/healing powers, they should be neuter, to kind of offset that. (I know, I know, 'then they look like Ruth) but if you don't have some sort of disadvantage to being a magical, mystical White, then everyone will want to play them. Making them capable of being either sex, but of neuter gender so they can't participate in Chases/Hatchings seems an easy way to even things up.


Simourv incest is...weird. I know it will reduce the amount of males available for a given Chase, but if we have more females clutching, that should help offset that. I am all for having direct relations (parents/children and siblings) NOT Chase each other.

I think that every hatching should (ideally, according to the Sr. Phoenixes) take place in an Eyrie. Both to record new variants, and also so that all Winglets are trained how to care for their simourv. Some may choose to go into fighter training, others may join other cadres, but at the Eyrie is where you learn how to care for your new mindmate, and let them interact with a wide variety of others of their species while they're still young, so they get enculturated by both human and simourv cultures. Once the simourv is fledged they may choose to leave and be stationed as guards or engineers or couriers or tree-farmers elsewhere - but everyone starts out at the Eyrie (both as a way to make sure the baby simourv are cared for all right IC, and OOC so that everyone starts out able to interact with a wider pool of fellow PCs)

I...think that's all for now?

Oh! And since someone mentioned basing things off of Ico3/Last Guardian...I'm not really comfortable with that? I mean, I don't see the point of trying to shake the label of 'DRoP clone' from our feet if we're just going to dive into embracing a different fandom. I know there's very little information out about LG right now (and I think the conversation was in relation to magic use in this world?), but I'd prefer us/the admins to come up with original ideas for an original world. It's too late to change the design of the simourv, but I'd like to see everything else be as original as possible.

[Kilnarak]

Yeah, I think having simourv stationed to different towns as guards sounds like a good idea. But if the focus is the Eyrie, they might need to be NPCs? That's sort of what I was thinking of, with a set group of simourv in each town, if they fly and then lay eggs in that town... But I suppose if they require all clutching simourv to return to the Eyrie, that could work.

We might have different sets of training at the Eyrie - sort of a general training when they're young, and then specialized Guard/Transport/Healer/etc training after that?

Mm. What do we want to do about the no-sex taboo? Do we want to change that, throw it out, keep it? How I'd been thinking was that when simourv are young, the human side of the bond is mentally stronger - thus the need for abstinence because the human side takes over. But then when the simourv are older, the simourv are mentally stronger, and thus why humans feel/act the way they do during Flights, if that makes sense? But I suppose if we're doing away with that part of flights, it'd make sense to do away with the abstinence requirement when the simourv are young...

I should have probably brought that up in the first post. I sort of forgot about it.

[Para]

Well, I've always thought the abstinence requirement was... not ICly thought out, and wanted to get rid of it, but not because of that. I've thought that human and simourv sex is different enough, it just would confuse the simourv, and the ban was placed due to some simourv reacting badly to the confusion (with sex being allowed later because then the rider can just tell their simourv 'it's a human flight,' and the simourv has a way to deal with what's going on in terms they understand, and/or the simourv has had more time to learn about it, or 'overhear' some other couple, and thus won't panic because they have a better idea of what's going on). So while it could be bad for a simourv hatchling, so could the rider getting drunk, or having a breakdown of some kind, or basically anything else that is just so far out of the hatchling's experience that they have no place to start with understanding it, while the rider is too distracted to explain. (If the rider does explain, then, it wouldn't be likely to bother the simourv at all, unless they were particularly possessive.) So, I'm definitely for getting rid of the simourvs being harmed by the riders having sex, though the Eyrie banning it anyway (due to wanting new riders to focus on their duties, or just mistakenly thinking that it will hurt the simourv) I could see as being entirely possible, especially if the riders are going into more militaristic careers. I'd lean slightly toward there being no ban just for plot options, but don't really care that much.

[Meesh]

Woohoo, Meesh is late!


1. More colors? I feel like that'd be too much complication. With the colors we have now, plus adding in this white, I think we'll have plenty of variation.
2. I always thought that simourv were too big for their feathers, so to speak. I'm thinking the smallest (and rainbow or a white) should still definitely be large enough to carry a rider or two, but not bigger-than-a-house huge. How would they be able to survive? The dinosaurs died out for a reason. Super predators can only manage so far. Also, size difference should definitely be reduced, unless we want different breeds of simourv (which I do not support at all). I'd say that the Greys should be no more than two to three times the size of the rainbows with everyone else ranging in between, and even then, rainbows could be roughly the size of draft horses while greys...I'd say no large than a house
3. I'm thinking that clutching can work so there's always small, frequent amounts of eggs on the sands. Maybe two or three rainbows and a couple of greens can all fly at once, but when a tawny or grey clutches, only one or two rainbows or greens can fly. So there's always roughly...I'd say ten eggs on the sands.

4. I don't like the idea of bonding based on gender or sexuality, . Maybe bonding can go by personality only?

5. Well, I don't like this idea too much. Maybe the roles can be stereotypes, but not set in stone. So, a tawnyrider is usually a caregiver, but if they want to go out and fight battles, they'll be resisted, sure, but not fully stopped.

6. This is a little harder, and depends on how similar we want to be to Pern. I personally like having colors and sexes linked, just for better organization, but either idea works

Short, I'm sorry. Twenty eight hours later and surgery drugs still must not have worn off